Registered sinners

th-8What would you say if I told you there was a church in Oregon specifically for registered sex offenders, so much so that they have a special service on Sunday afternoon so they can legally come to a church where no one under 18 is admitted? (Sex offenders may not legally attend church because of the presence of children.) The 3 p.m. service is also attended by former prisoners, a few gay and lesbian couples and the homeless. Actually, most registered sex offenders find this service by way of homelessness because who is going to rent you an apartment or give you a job after you have served time as a registered sex offender? And who will welcome you into church? Most churches can’t if they wanted to, except for Light My Way, part of the ministry of Sonrise Church in Hillsboro, Oregon.

They literally fell into this ministry by way of their service for years in downtown Portland to the homeless, the poor and disenfranchised. They were leading registered sex offenders to Christ but there was no place for them to go to church, so they created a place. Is that cool or what?

If you’re going to pick your sin, don’t pick this one; it will mark you for life. Even if you rehabilitate; even if you are saved and gifted of God with leadership abilities and a strong desire to serve Him; where are you going to do that? Nowhere, unless you happen to live in the Portland area.

In talking with Rocky Wing, associate pastor at Sonrise currently in charge of Light My Way, he used a phrase that immediately caught my attention. He talked about the people involved at Light My Way as people “with a past.” I understand how this phrase would come about, but it is a most unfortunate one. Why do these people have a past? Because their past is unusually bad? I mean, how bad can it be? Is their past somehow beyond the reach of God’s grace?

Are we saying that all those who come to church at 11 a.m. don’t have a past? No, it’s just that they are lucky. Their sin isn’t registered.

Don’t you want to go to the 3 o’clock service? That’s where it’s going to be real. No doubt about the gospel here. No doubt about grace here. And no doubt you will witness and experience “grace turned outward” in action.

I have an idea. I think we should all register our sin. Imagine going to church with registered liars, registered cheats, registered abusers, registered gossipers, registered back-stabbers, registered hypocrites — oh heck, why don’t we just call it registered sinners? I want to be around people with a past, because then I know they are also people who struggle with the present, and need God’s grace in order to have a future. I want to go to church with those people, don’t you?

Rocky called Light My Way a place “where they don’t feel judged.” What a shame that we have to create a separate 3 p.m. Sunday afternoon service for registered sex offenders in order to have a place where no one feels judged, when the 11 o’clock service should be the least judgmental place on earth. I think we need to start registering sinners.

RWJF

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41 Responses to Registered sinners

  1. bobenearSeattle says:

    I’m surprised the people from Westboro Baptist Church haven’t picketed there, yet.
    Or have they?

  2. At the same time, I understand why we require people to be registered as sex offenders. Having dealt with this sensitive situation before, your post fails to speak of those who have been hurt by these sins. No doubt lying is a sin and gossip is a sin and both can hurt others but sexual sins are different even as 1 Corinthians 6:12-20 shows. Galatians 5:19 lists sexual immorality as first before listing other sins. The reason is clear: sexual sins involve others and offend not just God but destroys others lives. Women who are raped live with the horror of another’s sin for the rest of their days. Children molested must live with another’s sin the rest of their lives. It is not an easy thing nor is it the same as someone stealing your lawnmower from your garage.

    I agree that God can forgive and we must as well but while God can forgive, we must still track the sex offender to keep both the sinner and others safe.

  3. That is pretty amazing. And yes, whenever I am about to open my mouth in a negative way, I try to make sure I flash my own sin list in front of my brain so the words that come out are hopefully more humbled and healing instead of the opposite. Too much slips out anyway. This is really awesome, to have a service like this. I really had not considered the fact that they cannot go to a regular service. It’s really tough when you do something that publicly marks you for the rest of your life.

  4. Linda from Texas says:

    Isn’t it wonderful that God forgives and forgets our sins (Heb. 8:12) and that in eternity “the former things won’t be remembered nor come to mind” (Isaiah 65:17) – we’ll forget also! Heaven would not be heaven if this were not the case. Every day that passes makes me long for that “home of righteousness” – a new start for everyone.

  5. Mark Seguin says:

    I loved parts of today’s Catch Pastor John and even felted moved by the great points which you made, yet also while reading it, I couldn’t stop thinking about a couple of women friend’s of mine that have been sexually abused and the damage that has caused in their life – AT NO FAULT OF THEIRS! So to try and make that sin equal to others – I don’t think you thought this one completely out, nor perhaps took the time to ask a person that was abused by someone. Maybe then you could understand a bit more why this sins NEEDS a register and requires a different service to attend…

    • jwfisch says:

      Sin is sin. Grace is grace. Forgiveness is for everyone. There are no degrees — nothing outside the reach of God’s mercy.

      • Mark Seguin says:

        I knew that I knew you’d reply in such as manner – you seemly, to me have some trouble admitting when you may have made a mistake and didn’t try to understand both sides of an issues. Like many of these gosh darn preachers do… and that makes me sad, and a lot of Christianity look totally unfeeling and uncaring… Saying well you just need to forgive the person that completely 100% destroyed your life, or certainly tried to.

        So may i plz suggest to try and consider if you were raped and beating the hell up beyond recognition… and I’ll re-post what the seeking Disciple posted: “I agree that God can forgive and we must as well but while God can forgive, we must still track the sex offender to keep both the sinner and others safe.”

        I got to leave the Catch again… to try and cool off…

      • Still in one Peace says:

        John 19:11New International Version (NIV)

        11 Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”

        Matthew 12:31New International Version (NIV)

        31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

        no sin = Jesus
        sin = us
        greater sin = the one who handed Jesus over
        unforgivable sin = blasphemy against the Spirit

        seems that the bible implies there are at least 4 degrees of sin…

      • Mark Seguin says:

        Thx 4 those verses Still in one Peace, appreciate it & you – plus I learned something from your post!
        PS let me plz also say to Bob Hofferber & Pastor John i’m sorry for my mean words to you both, plz forgive me for that…

      • jwfisch says:

        Forgiven, my friend. Always. If I don’t forgive you, who will forgive me? You are a dear man, Mark, and Marti and I love you very much.

      • jwfisch says:

        The minute you open the door on levels of sin, you open the door on judgement, because someone has to decide what those levels are. The minute we start deciding is the minute we become Pharisees; that’s what Bob was talking about. In all these cases, God is the judge. Let’s keep it that way. “Do not judge,” said Jesus. Can we make that any clearer? Our focus, at all times, needs to be on our sin and everyone else’s forgiveness.

      • Kathy Willis says:

        Do you realize how you sound John with this answer. I can picture you saying it with your arms crossed over your chest looking so self-righteous. I agree with Mark – I too don’t think you thought this one through.

  6. peggy thomas says:

    As I read, I have mixed feelings – But God uses all things for good! With amazing grace. I recently shared a large part of my testimony to a beautiful group of sisters in Christ – really the first time in the light of day – with God’s help – and sometimes I am sure it was he who spoke.

    I am one of those victims from more than 40 years ago – who recently had the courage to tell others and I began writing to my aggressor this last year when his dad died. He is in prison now, my cousin – after a lifetime of hurting others. I had mixed feelings about my uncle, his dad writing to him but with Gods great grace this changed to pride and when my uncle passed last spring God spoke very loud and clear and I began the cautious process of writing to someone I have tried numerous times to forgive and whom I use to blame some of my most self destructive acts for.

    Our last letter was about our great God and my trust in him. God continues to do such amazing things in my life. God is good always. I work with people in my job and volunteer activities. I know that because of my past that I am very good with those that have been hurt and broken. My mission has become helping kids, protecting kids, and also those broken adults – some of which are registered offenders. My place of work runs many activities for youth, adults and families. Part of my job is to keep them safe and to reduce the risks. I know all sin is the same in my head but the hurt I felt and the hurt I have seen others feel – sometimes so fresh and raw… I struggle with my desire and need to protect…

    As I wrote to my offender, I began not praying for myself but for him and the other children he hurt and the most amazing thing happened – I think I finally am not afraid of him and the memories and that it seems I might not pick up that burden of un forgiveness again. I will never forget the hurt and may never totally trust him – But do put my trust in the Lord….

    I don’t believe I am healed enough to trust those who have acted violently toward others to not watch. I have a few friends who have committed acts of violence, but I do not let them around my child alone ever.

    • Mark Seguin says:

      Wanted to thank-you deeply Peggy for feeling comfortable with ‘us’ @the Catch to share your feelings -I pray for you and love your as a sister-in-the Lord.
      God’s speed and blessings to you.. 🙂

    • jwfisch says:

      Thank you for sharing your heart in these difficult areas. God has taught you much. Jesus not only forgave those who were killing and beating him, he said they didn’t know what they were doing. There is a sense in which we are all victims. We all need Jesus.

  7. Bob Hofferber says:

    Interesting stuff. I have worked with juvenile sex offenders in a variety of settings for the last 25+ years (including 15 years as a foster parent) so I am quite aware that when it comes to anyone who has committed a sex crime, the “label’ overshadows the person and fear generally trumps common sense.

    What is especially sad is that most juvenile offenders (95+%) do not re-offend once they have gone through a treatment program, but they still have to deal with the registration requirements, often for the rest of their lives.

    So who are these “juvenile sex offenders”?

    A majority of the kids I worked with were abused and sexualized way too early, then acted out on their pain and confusion. Since they are children, their victims are likely children as well, often family members. Once they are caught they go through the court system, do their time, complete a treatment program (generally 2 plus years) and still have to register as a sex offender. Add in the fact that many of them can’t return home because they victimized a sibling and things get worse. Once they turn 18 they can’t get a job (unless they lie on their applications) get into programs like Job Corps or join the military. Housing is next to impossible to find and a large percentage of these kids end up homeless. All for a crime they may have committed at age 12 or younger.

    It’s a complex problem and it requires a change in the way we treat these people, since most of them are not the monsters that we think they are. Attitudes as well as laws need to change, but lets face it, no politician is going to get votes by proposing more equitable justice for sex offenders.

    I’d suggest everyone read the article about what this church is doing. It looks like they are doing a great job balancing ministering to these people and keeping the church and surrounding community safe)
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/feature2/2015/oregon-s-church-for-sex-offenders.html

  8. If anyone causes one of these little ones–those who believe in me–to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Matt 18:6
    If anyone causes one of these little ones–those who believe in me–to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea. Mark 9:42

    I believe scripture is clear about this topic and these men/women are not rehabilitative in any sense of the word. Can and do we forgive them, it is required by God to do so, however, we do not have to be around them to prove it. I will never, ever subject my child to attend such a church even though the perpetrators left.
    You may believe and think it is cools, but it is far from it

    • jwfisch says:

      This verse is about false teachers not sexual predators. None of us has the right to place anyone outside the redemptive power of Jesus Christ. The gospel is either for everyone or it’s not, and if it’s not for everyone then how do I know it’s for me? “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. The key part of this passage being: “such WERE some of you.” In Christ all things become new. That’s quite a group in heaven.

      • Mark Seguin says:

        Come on now John, she Colleen wrote: “Can and do we forgive them, it is required by God to do so, however, we do not have to be around them to prove it.” Then why did you even think/feel a need to state this then? “None of us has the right to place anyone outside the redemptive power of Jesus Christ.” She DIDN’T say that!!!

        Plz re-read her post again! You to me, are coming off as one of these self-righteousness preachers that seemly has a ton of trouble seeing their errors…

        Oh forget it, I’m better off saying bye… 😦

      • Mr. John~ you can preach it all you want, but I have seen both sides of the fence. I have seen a homeless and drunken pedophile whose family has no place for him. However, in my life when the pedophile was protected, because “What would the neighbors think!” was spared in his sin, yet suffered a heart attack at a young age (34 y/o to be exact) that killed 1/2 of his heart and later his wife replied, “God knew what He was doing when he gave you that heart attack!” How do I know this so well John and others who are wondering? I was 10 y/o old when it first happened and I was scared to death of a man that I was suppose to trust, her new husband. Can’t imagine what my older sister went through. Remember me saying I hitch hiked to L.A. and lived there, yeah because who would want to be in the house of horrors? I flew back only to warn my younger sister to watch herself around him. Do not think they will ever be healed. I returned and got married only for him to try to still control me, He even asked me if my new husband was treating me right in the bedroom. Then went into a jealous rage when I would not go into the swimming pool with him (I was waiting for my husband) and he retorted, “Well you come into the pool with him!” Oh really and you really believe these folks can be redeemed? Do not tread where you have not experienced it. I am not chastising you so do not accept it as that, because writing or texting doesn’t show my expression or the sound of a person and that it may appear as so. My mother who chose to betray her daughters for her comfortable life was laying sick in bed and my future husband was speaking with her when her husband again tried to stick his tongue down my throat! And you want to know what John, I mowed their lawn, trimmed their hedges, painted their home for years only for them to continually use and abuse me. So what analogy do you have for 77 x7? Is that literal? Or just a metaphor? Then not to mention when I became ill and had to stay there was called: A liar, I was faking, yet didn’t stop him from coming into the room I was sleeping at 37 y/o to try and fondle me when everyone was gone. How about someone does this to your precious daughter? Would you still feel the same?

  9. John Btw: I did not share this with you to see me as a victim, was I yes! Yet I have Victory, because regardless I have overcome and I am still standing @ almost 54 y/o. I can almost say I have lived life and have helped many people during my short span that you could imagine. I, however, do not boast but try to give everyone a glimpse of how sometimes the small things matter. So if you want to chastise me, so be it! BTDT
    Mark~ Thank you so much for seeing what I wrote and I appreciate your support! In my prayers I will ask the Lord to give you a double blessing (in case you didn’t know I do, do that, lol I pray daily). Love you brother Colleen

    • Mark Seguin says:

      You’re very much welcome Colleen, so sorry a few @#%$ can not see their error! So sad… especially when these evangelical goof-balls have to say ‘sin is sin’ and cannot seemly understand the damage that sin causes! Jackasses – everyone of them!!!

      When most people with one half bit of common sense will be able to tell you maybe one of the reasons God didn’t feel a need to state in the scriptures the degree or level of sins – is because He thought most would have enough common sense to know a little lie, is different than say killing someone, or God forbid sexually abusing them….

      And Bob can you read!?! How many times does someone have to state surely it’s a forgivable sin! Yet you some how or another have the stupidly to post this bologna: “Any time we think our sin isn’t as bad as someone else’s, we turn ourselves into Pharisees.” Who posted anything like that? In fact I think/believe if you would actually reads these post you may find just the opposite!

      Now again I’m so sorry for you Colleen to have to put up with an again seemly evangelical goof-ball (in this issue) for splinting hairs about the two good scriptures verses you quoted. By trying to tell you that is ONLY about a false teacher – not is always to be applied to the “.. little ones–those who believe in me–to stumble” but i guess a few @#$@ some how or another can’t see how that could or may be applied to causing them to ‘stumble’ – in my opinion Bob now there is a great case of being a Pharisees and not being able to admit that they didn’t get both sides of an issue and ONLY theirs is the correct one – then try to get u to listen to a recording… or a web link – It DOESN’T matter John again and yet again this SURELY is forgiveness for this sin – i NEVER said it is not! And don’t think anyone here said that there is no forgiveness – I even commend this Church for their Ministry!!! Yet if you like to think it’s just ‘sin is sin’ you are NOT trying to see both sides of this issue and i think/believe committing an error.
      PS also Peggy if you’re still here and reading the Catch let me please express my sorrow for what happen to you – and i wish it didn’t… Also i firmly believe it was in no way, shape or form your fault..! You’re in my thoughts and prayers… 🙂

      • Thank you Mark~ Many times that is the issue of people wanting to live life with Rose colored glasses 😉 Praying for too brother, IHL Colleen

      • peggy thomas says:

        Colleen – I can’t imagine- I know how a couple of years felt and then he moved away…. I love the word victory – in my prayers…..
        Mark – thank you for your kind reply… I appreciate it, but God uses all things to make good. (I would not do this over if I chose) FREE WILL is a gift he gave – and all of our choices effect others, the good and the bad.
        The good part it helped shape me into who I am now. I am strong in my faith – stronger than I was raised in….. I have the ability to truly understand if a child or adult discloses and can connect in a way that is genuine….. And I understand the importance of getting them help. I see the signs much more clearly than my peers and staff and I know this is because of the experience I have had. I am not sorry it happened – do I wish it didn’t – you bet – but I have had the opportunity to impact lives in great ways… victims, parents, and staff. I work in a recreational field and I am a lifelong learner. Until this last year I didn’t share publically at all, and still only if I feel it would help someone…
        I pray for my cousin – something my mother struggles with…. He needs it – for his past (he has a long trail of victims before someone told) and prison life is hard. Everyone disowned him -including myself until this last year. I write him but can not imagine having to face him. But I share my belief in Christ – it is hard but God has made it so clear to me that I needed to do this.
        God is the ultimate healer – he can do what no man alone can…..
        As for the Church service – I know they need guidance and support. A place to belong when an outcast from most of society. I don’t believe that God every gives up on someone, unfortunately it is us humans that do this. God does have a huge one up on us – he can see their heart – their true self and here on this earth we don’t have this…. Most of us – we see, hear, observe and feel (based on our own past experiences) and make decisions based on this-and then ask and listen for God to speak…
        I believe this is a great way to show grace. We have a organization that provides meals for free to homeless ect. Three times a week they teach – what an amazing ministry – the persons past in not in question – as long as those attending the service – after the meal follow basic ground rules … I have friends that actually prefer this service –
        I want everyone to find Christ –

  10. Bob Hofferber says:

    I think the issue comes down to why you want to stay away from “those people” (registered sex offenders)
    Let me explain- If someone is staying away from them based on their own experiences of being victimized that is one thing. Obviously keeping yourself and your family out of situations where they can be abused is another legitimate reason. As I see it, the problem comes when we decide to avoid someone simply because of their “label’ and/or because we find their particular sin especially repulsive. Any time we think our sin isn’t as bad as someone else’s, we turn ourselves into Pharisees. Now I’m not saying that all sins are equal in impact, and I certainly don’t want to condemn anyone who is having difficulty forgiving their own abuser. What I am saying is that sex offenders are people who are capable of receiving God’s grace AND are capable of change. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not only ignoring statistical evidence (A large majority of convicted sex offenders never reoffend) but more disturbingly are saying that a particular sin has put someone beyond God’s grace.
    As for this particular church, I commend them. If you read the article, they are being realistic and have gone to great lengths to make sure that the rest of the church and the community are safe. (I’d go so far as to suggest that the odds of anyone being abused at that church is significantly lower than it is in your average American church) As I see it, in addition to the positive results of this ministry in the lives of the people attending their services, the fact that what they are doing likely lowers the chance of any of their congregation reoffending and victimizing anyone else makes this ministry doubly worthwhile.
    Once again, I encourage you and the rest of the Catch faithful to read the article about this church since it does a good job explaining that “Sex offender” and “predatory pedophile” are not interchangeable terms.

    • Well I guess you missed the news today when a gentlemen went to the church picnic and tried to run off with 2 kids even while the parents were present, umm yeah and I am suppose to believe your suggestion and theory?! I don’t think so

      • I forgot to mention this gentlemen was a member of the church 😉

      • jwfisch says:

        I would strongly urge you all to take the time to listen to our interview with Rocky Wing from the church in Oregon that is ministering to the homeless, ex-prisoners, some of whom are registered sex offenders. It might shed some light on this difficult subject. For the interview, go to http://www.blogtalkradio.com/thecatch/2015/03/25/a-catch-conversation-when-grace-turned-outward-gets-pushed-to-the-limits

      • Bob Hofferber says:

        Colleen- I’m not sure what incident you are referring to. I’m guessing that this was not the church in Hillsboro OR that we have been talking about, so I’m not sure what the connection is. I would guess that on any given Sunday there are lots of sex offenders that are in churches, the vast majority of them being there to worship, not to abduct children. The church in Hillsboro is likely safer than most because everyone is more aware AND they have gone to great lengths to make the situation safe for all involved.

        Bottom line is that you and I are not going to agree on the realities of the dangers presented by this population, which is OK.

        i

    • I never said I had difficulty forgiving my abuser, so do not ASSume that I haven’t forgiven. I choose to stay away and I would offer you to walk a mile in my shoes and I know you will refuse, because you could not handle it! STOP Assuming that people haven’t read all the articles and I know all to well about predatory pedophiles, because maybe you didn’t read my post I lived with one!

  11. bobenearSeattle says:

    Well, John – you sure know how to spark a lively conversation!
    Regardless of the differences of opinion, these are the sorts of topics that need to be discussed if we’re going to grow and thrive as an honest and welcoming community.
    No one says we all have to agree – nor should we feel required to agree – but we also shouldn’t be, as someone once termed it, “sheeple”: always going with the flow and nodding their heads in mindless obeisance.
    On the flip side, those expressing opposing views – while rightfully passionate – also need to respond in a manner worthy of Jesus’ Name and accept the fact that not all followers of Christ are going to agree on everything.
    And that, right there, is the beauty and appeal of God’s true Church:
    the unique diversity within us all as individuals, the freedom to be whom He created us to be, the acceptance of one another in Love without the stone-throwing, and the comforting knowledge that “God is still on His throne” and reigns supreme – despite our limited understanding.

    Shalom…

  12. Sharon B says:

    I’d like to share some facts about registered sex offenders that people who haven’t beein involved with this system don’t always know. First and foremost, over 90% of victims know their perpetrator- it’s an uncle, grandfather, family friend, coach,etc. Stranger attacks are very rare, thus they are the ones that get reported the loudest. Sex offender registries often create a false sense of security for parents because they think they know where the danger is. Registered sex offenders have a low recidivism rate for the same type of crime – when a RSO gets arrested a second time, it’s usually related to theft or drug abuse often as a result of not being able to find a home, a job or anywhere that he can go. People can be on the registry for crimes like online chatting with a teenager (who could end the chat at any time), having consensual sex with a minor if the offender is over 17, having sex with a minor who is posing as an adult (even if the offender doesn’t know the victim is underage), viewing pornography that has minors – again even if offender is not aware of the age and yes, peeing in public – and for those that have committed a horrible crime, it’s not always against a minor. Restrictions like Oregan’s do not promote safety for the public because they create a population that has nothing to lose. Families think they’re safe if they stay away from those evil people on the list but give unfettered access to those who just haven’t been caught yet. It’s much better for all ex prisoners to be able to reintegrate into society. If someone is a danger to their neighbors, they shouldn’t be released from jail but if he/she has done his time, then why don’t they deserve the same chance to become a productive citizen? I am a victim of sexual abuse and I’ve spent a lot of time studying this system and it’s very, very broken. I am also a Christian, saved by grace and I know that God loves each one of the people on this registry as much as He loves me. I commend Rocky and the work the church is doing.

  13. Shannon says:

    I would love to attend this church, however, I’m on the east coast, just because of the richness of grace….I’m sorry but I don’t see this much within the church body and I’m currently searching for a church that is ‘grace outward’…. I see more self-righteous, more Pharisees, more hypocites…I know because I can be one; I can measure my goodness and judge and look down on others…I am so broken; so jaded, but people don’t realize that human is human we think like this…we think high and mighty of ourselves…we think we can maintain the law…we think we can have it all together…and measure, measure, measure….people think that they can reach a point of sinning less and less maybe even total sanctification…..I just want to find people that know they are broken and in need grace….

  14. Bob Hofferber says:

    I want to apologize to anyone I offended with my comments. I in no way tried to minimize the pain that sexual abusers cause or suggest that their pain isn’t real. My attempt was to point out that we need to avoid overreacting and judging a person based on their label and also to try to point out the realities of what life can be like for juveniles convicted of sex offenses.

    Mark- As far as being a jackass and a $^@*% I can only plead guilty as charged- its not the first time and probably won’t be the last 🙂

    Sharon B- You expressed the general idea I was trying to get across in a much more eloquent manner than I, and I thank you.

    • Mark Seguin says:

      Hopefully brother Bob H. you did notice my post near the top of all this mess, LOL on March 25, 2015 at 2:54 pm
      PS let me plz also say to Bob Hofferber & Pastor John i’m sorry for my mean words to you both, plz forgive me for that…i’ll add you forgive me for being a Jackass myself…

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